Aral Balkan

Be careful with the Save As feature in Flash CS3: it's horribly broken.

On any other Mac application, if you choose to Save As, your file dialogue will default to the folder that the file is currently saved in. Not so in Flash CS3, where it defaults to the folder that you last saved any file into. So, if you save FLA A into Folder A and then do a Save As on FLA B (which is in Folder B), it will default to saving it in Folder A. This can result in having different versions of files saved in weird and wonderful locations on your drive which, in turn, can lead to lots of head scratching and the wasting of otherwise valuable and potentially productive time.

To make things worse, it will also forget the version of Flash that the FLA was saved for. So, if you saved an FLA for Flash 8 (because you need to share it with people who are still using Flash 8 Professional), it will randomly forget this.

So that's the problem with Save As, but it gets worse when you look at a related but different feature: plain old Save (File -> Save). And this time, the problem is not a bug; it's by design. When you try to save a Flash 8 FLA in Flash CS3, Flash will try and save it in CS3 format every time, forcing you to use the (broken) Save As feature until you finally can't take it anymore and save it as CS3, thereby locking out anyone with Flash 8 Professional from editing your FLA (which is exactly what Adobe wants you to do so it can sell more licenses of Flash CS3). Of course, this could also backfire. Since working in a mixed team where some members have Flash 8 Professional and others have Flash CS3 is so frustrating, some companies may choose to keep everyone on Flash 8 Professional for as long as possible.

Unfortunately, for the most part, the way the Save feature works is a very effective way to get people to upgrade, usability be damned. It's a cheap and nasty trick and I do hope that Adobe reconsider this tactic and stop using it in the future. But it does work, and virally at that (by pissing people off so much that everyone in a team/company is forced to upgrade when one person does), so I won't be holding my breath on that one.

Regardless of the "as designed" behavior of the Save feature (File -> Save), the Save As (File -> Save As) behavior I described above is most definitely a bug and I do hope that it gets fixed in the next point release. I rely on the Save As feature working correctly so much that I sometimes use it to make sure that I'm working on the correct version of a file.

Update: You can command-click (right-click) the name of the FLA on the title bar of the Flash IDE to see which folder it's in. This works with nearly every OS X application. Thanks to Jay, in the comments, for the tip.

Please fix Save As. And, if you really want to be nice, change the Save feature too so that it doesn't automatically try to save Flash 8 FLA files in CS3 format. What you lose in upgrade sales through frustration, you may gain in goodwill. Or maybe I'm just naïve like that...

Comments

• Voice in a desert :-) It's like asking Adobe to open Flash and Flex to other languages like Java and C#, or creating a good Flex 2 development addon for Visual Studio or adding refactoring in Flex Builder. Adobe successfully derived all these gotchas policy from Macromedia and as far as I see, won;t change soon. I wish I am wrong sometime soon.

  by Dimitar G. on 2007-05-09 13:59:19

• I've been lobbying for the change in SaveAs for at least 3-4 versions. Gave up. There's some more technical info on it, something about saving as an earlier version wipes out your undo history, whereas saving as native current version does not. But come on, that's not insurmountable. We're all programmers here. Anyway, thanks for the heads up on the new bug.

  by Keith Peters on 2007-05-09 14:44:13

• Wait a second... sure, it's whacked... and I think only now in CS3 it can only remember one folder (where before it would remember the folder from which it was opened--I believe). But to say it's a trick. Well, I'm just happy they have the functionality at all! I'd say most apps can't do this core feature at all. Thanks!

  by Phillip Kerman on 2007-05-09 15:06:23

• [...] Hopefully that’s the end of today’s grumpiness. Although I just read the SaveAs Gotcha written up by Aral. [...]

  by initial gripes with new Flash CS3 ui « creacog on 2007-05-09 15:42:39

• Hi Phillip, I believe Save As is successfully implemented in quite a few apps these days! :) The "trick" I'm talking about is how Save functions with Flash 8 FLAs in forcing you to do a Save As if you want to keep the file as Flash 8 and otherwise forcing you to save it as CS3.

  by aral on 2007-05-09 16:24:36

• My impression is they are just too busy, or overloaded, to make anything perfect. But they do good enough. Thanks for the heads up Aral!

  by LEE on 2007-05-09 18:22:37

• Safari is annoying too showing the downloads directory always instead of the directory where you last stored/download a file.

  by Weyert on 2007-05-09 23:02:22

• @Weyert: I actually find Safari's method of using a single download folder and then dated subfolders to be very easy to use. But you're right, you have to do it its way or else... :)

  by aral on 2007-05-10 00:24:39

• I agree whether it's by design or not; Save As has been and is very annoying. I'd really like a check box in my publish settings to lock in what version I want my project to be and then I could just hit Save without having to think about what version it's going to end up as. I've vented to MM in the past too - so it seems a lot of people have as well. On Windows if you use Flash 8 IDE and open a Flash 7 file, then Save as 8 by accident, you could Save As Flash 7 and revert for editing, but you kept the Flash 8 security sandbox - that was annoying too. In general, I'd like more control over both saving and the security sandboxes that go with the versions. Peace.

  by Michael Kaufman on 2007-05-10 01:03:23

• That is nasty. Is it the same for PC? I just downloaded the trial today and will be testing tomorrow. "I rely on Save As working correctly so much that I sometimes use it to make sure that I'm working on the correct version of a file." I do the same thing. Why? Because there is no other way to get this information. When you have two main.fla files open, which is which? There's no way to view the path to the FLAs unless you do a Save As when the document is selected. The Open is broken as well, as far as I'm concerned, at least for Flash 8 and before. Check out EditPlus. When you select a document and click Open the folder displayed is that of the currently selected document not the last location, which is completely useless. Check out Fireworks MX (not sure if they corrected this in newer versions). The same problem exists but worse: Open displays last open location, Export displays last export location, Save As displays last Save As location, Import ... you guessed it. Then start a new project in a different folder and you end up spending most of your time clicking through folders. I'm not convinced it's a trick. It's possible whoever is in charge of creating this functionality doesn't have a clue.

  by Derek Vadneau on 2007-05-10 02:34:07

• Hi Derek, Just to clarify: The "trick" I'm referring to has to do with Flash CS3's "Save" feature not its "Save As" feature. The Save feature forces you to save an FLA in CS3 format even if it was previously saved in Flash 8 format. This is the "trick" I mentioned in the blog post. This means that if you are working in a team and one team member has CS3 s/he has to continuously use Save As and save for Flash 8 on shared FLAs. Since Save As is broken, it makes it doubly hard to work in a team that doesn't all have Flash CS3. Of course, this could backfire as well: Instead of upgrading to CS3, a company may force everyone to use Flash 8 Professional for as long as possible.

  by aral on 2007-05-10 07:27:39

• That's a pretty big judgement leap to start crying 'trick!' Aral, with all respect somewhat sensationalist, don't you think? Why not just call out the usability flaw and let people determine motives using their own intelligence. I'm more interested in knowing how it actually impacts your workflow than conspiracy theories. Have you been prompted to create any workarounds, say, a JSFL script or a panel?

  by timbot on 2007-05-10 13:21:36

• Hi Timbot, Nope, it's not a judgement leap or sensationalism. What I wrote in my post is purely based on being heavily involved in Flash for the past decade or so and seeing the same feature request ignored in every version. I do find it amusing how quickly some people resort to calling any criticism, however rational, a "conspiracy theory". This is not a conspiracy theory but a fact: The current behavior of the Save feature in Flash is not a bug or a usability flaw. It is a prime example of perfectly functioning code doing exactly what its designers meant for it to do. The motive behind it is to make it difficult for teams to work together on a project if some members have the previous version of the Flash IDE while others have the latest version and to ultimately get all team members to upgrade to the latest version of Flash. It is a business decision/tactic that Adobe has implemented to increase the adoption of new versions of the IDE. Although this topic is raised nearly every time there is a new release, Adobe (and previously, Macromedia) has ignored this because it makes business sense from their point of view. My biggest gripe is that if you are going to force people down an uncomfortable route, at least make sure that that route functions correctly. Since you are forced to use Save As instead of Save when saving to previous versions of Flash, at least fix the bug in Save As so that people don't end up with different versions of their FLAs littered around their computer by mistake. Regarding your last question: No, I haven't been prompted to create workarounds for bugs and usability flaws in the Flash IDE. I spend nearly all my time contributing open souce software to the Flash community and don't really feel the need to also donate my time to fix bugs and provide workarounds for the flagship commercial IDE of a multi-billion dollar corporation.

  by aral on 2007-05-10 13:41:30

• I see. Thanks. Sorry to offend with the term 'conspiracy theory'. I'm a big fan, and I'm just saying lets keep it positive and build solutions rather than getting mired in conjecture over motives...there's no end of it once that starts. Extensions to the IDE are good open-source projects too.

  by timbot on 2007-05-10 16:28:20

• Extensions to the IDE are good open-source projects too.

  Couldn't agree with you more on that one. Unfortunately, a cursory glance at the JSFL docs seems to indicate that you can only put up the Save As dialogue and there don't appear to be a (documented, at least) method of providing defaults for it. If anyone does have a workaround, I'd love to hear it! It's really pissing me off to have to use Save As for every SWX example I'm working on (especially since I keep forgetting and get the Save error message a hundred million times a day!) :)

  by aral on 2007-05-10 16:44:00

• for your Mac "save to" path problems, try Default Folder X :)

  by Freddy on 2007-05-10 17:44:13

• Hey Freddy -- thanks, downloading it now to give it a whirl! :)

  by aral on 2007-05-10 19:50:05

• > ...have to use Save As for every SWX example Then just stop doing it, sensationalist! ;)

  by subhero on 2007-05-10 21:09:07

• lol, I love Adobe and save dialogs and "features" lol

  by Damien Jorgensen on 2007-05-13 22:24:20

• I'm glad I'm not the only one going crazy because of these problems. I work with several different .fla files at once and every time I need to save them all I am forced to "Save as" each of them one by one, and have to check what the file type is each time because it changes back to CS3 File randomly. :@

  by SonnyZ on 2007-05-24 16:19:49

• "Just to clarify: The “trick” I’m referring to has to do with Flash CS3’s “Save” feature not its “Save As” feature. The Save feature forces you to save an FLA in CS3 format even if it was previously saved in Flash 8 format. This is the “trick” I mentioned in the blog post. This means that if you are working in a team and one team member has CS3 s/he has to continuously use Save As and save for Flash 8 on shared FLAs. " 'Save' and 'Save As' are 2 different in the way they work. When you do a save it just writes out the file but when save as an older file format the file is written out, closed and then re-opened, therefore losing any undo info. Due to losing this info I think it makes sense that you have to select a 'Save As' so that you are aware this information will be lost.

  by Tink on 2007-05-28 11:30:00

• @Tink: Hmm, weren't there some rumours of CS3 files being sent out by mistake by a certain someone? Come on, man, Save As is broken. I don't think it's possible to make excuses for how it "works" currently. The behavior you mention is unacceptable (closed/reopened). Which other app "works" like this? Save As in Flash is broken, on purpose, period.

  by aral on 2007-05-28 13:05:22

• [...] Hopefully that’s the end of today’s grumpiness. Although I just read the SaveAs Gotcha written up by Aral. [...]

  by creacog-the-blog » Blog Archive » initial gripes with new Flash CS3 ui on 2007-06-02 23:53:16

• [...] Hopefully that’s the end of today’s grumpiness. Although I just read the SaveAs Gotcha written up by Aral. [...]

  by creacog » initial gripes with new Flash CS3 ui on 2007-06-10 22:13:09

• "“I rely on Save As working correctly so much that I sometimes use it to make sure that I’m working on the correct version of a file.” "I do the same thing. Why? Because there is no other way to get this information. When you have two main.fla files open, which is which? There’s no way to view the path to the FLAs unless you do a Save As when the document is selected."" Actually, that is not true—for the Mac. In almost any Mac app you can cmd Click on the Title of the Doc and see the full path to the file. It is much easier than doing it anyother way. I don't know if this works for the PC (I thought it did) because it has been too long (not long enough) since I have used one. j

  by Jay on 2007-06-14 21:18:24

• CS3 has shipped, and this is still broken.

  by thewebguy on 2007-07-24 13:10:08

• Unfortunately, it's not broken but that way on purpose :(

  by Aral on 2007-07-24 13:14:22

• What really adds frustration to this whole Save As problem, is there's no way to select the version when saving with JSFL. Correct me if I'm wrong. I found no way do save Flash 8 from Flash CS3 with JSFL without prompting user to manually select the version. The only way to avoid this manual dialog is suppress this warning via the Preferences > Warnings dialog. But this doesn't solve the problem, it just hides it from the user. However, even if Adobe makes such decision just to force sales of Flash CS3 - let'em do it, they must make money to help the whole Flash Platform survive among growing list of its competitors like Silverlight and and Java F3... it would be worse when we end up with Microsoft buying Adobe, so let them force users buy last version.

  by Rostislav Siryk on 2007-08-09 16:39:35

• "Actually, that is not true—for the Mac. In almost any Mac app you can cmd Click on the Title of the Doc and see the full path to the file. It is much easier than doing it anyother way. I don’t know if this works for the PC (I thought it did) because it has been too long (not long enough) since I have used one." Thanks for the tip Jay! This was the first webpage I found talking about this glaring usability issue...

  by annie on 2007-08-09 21:07:21

• @Jay: I keep forgetting about that one, thanks! (And thanks, Annie, for highlighting it -- I'd missed that bit originally).

  by Aral on 2007-08-10 11:00:40

• Whenever I tend to save my Flash file (Opened in Flash CS3) as a Flash 8 document, the program shuts down. I tried updating, and reinstalling. Maybe it's my setup, but it's a legal version, so this shouldn't happen. People at adobe don't reply my messages, so I try to seek help elsewhere

  by Luuk Eigenraam on 2008-02-27 08:56:43

• Sorry, but can't seem to get over this basic pain... I just swithced over from a PC to a MAC- so far great, but lot's of irritating issues. For example, I am simply trying to "Save" a file in Flash CS3 but can only do it to one of the default locaions! I can't even expand my own hard drive. What gives? Is this another "trick" or I am just pathetic? Thanks, Ed

  by Ed on 2007-10-30 16:50:18

• Hi Ed, Try clicking on the little arrow next to the file name and you should see a drop-down list with all your various places.

  by Aral on 2007-10-30 18:30:37

• I just this problem today with student bring ing in late school work. My students who fall behind will download the trial Flash version to work at home and then save as MX 2004 version since that is what we have at school. This semester it has not worked. aaaugh!!! I am putting the trial version on a laptop from the library to check their work, but any suggestions for dealing with this? Thanks

  by Doug on 2007-12-17 15:42:54

• Adobe is the king of nasty tricks. They suck, plain and simple.

  by Kirk Zimmerman on 2008-03-07 20:04:54

• [...] (5/7/9): According to a comment to this blog entry, the “Save As” issue goes back several versions. Adobe’s excuse is [...]

  by Adobe CS4 Annoyances « Groove 11 Code Blog on 2009-05-07 18:08:27

• Hi Kirk, They're a large public company. I think it's a leap to say that "they suck" based on the implementation of a single feature. Historically, Macromedia/Adobe have been very responsive to community feedback on their products.

  by Aral on 2008-03-09 15:27:35

• Man, this has been frustrating me a lot lately. The Mac OS version of Flash is far far inferior and more bugged than the Windows version. Not to say the Windows one is any good - I used to backtrack to Flash 8 all the time when I was on Windows cos the system was so messed up. Now I'm on Mac and only have licence to use CS3. Makes me sad.

  by Stringycustard on 2008-09-08 08:11:47

• Either this is a nasty trick, or a design flaw. Either way, it reflects poorly on Adobe.

  by Tom on 2008-06-11 09:47:31

• I came up with a JSFL workaround for a somewhat similar issue. I wrote a script to import a bunch of images, set their linkage properties and other stuff, and build a code skeleton for use in my app. But I couldn't find a way to "Save As" a specific filename without user intervention - very annoying - so here's the trick I used: I created an empty .FLA document, set some publish settings, and saved it as "Template.fla". The script uses FLfile.copy(templateURI, desiredFileNameURI), and opens the new copy of the template. I do all my imports, etc., and then save and publish. I don't know if there's any way this trick could apply to your purposes, but I thought I'd mention it in case it might be of some help. Thanks for the informative site! Andrew

  by Andrew on 2008-05-12 04:12:57

• This isn't a fix-all solution, but in some cases it is helpful. Save the file as CS3, but in the actions panel, set the the version (at the top left) to AS 1 and 2. Then you don't have to use the intentional and inconsiderate "Save As" annoyance.

  by Mitch on 2008-10-24 17:35:54

• Hi. Does anyone know why files created in flash 8, seem to quadruple in size when edited it flash CS3 and then "saved as" version 8 files? I have flash that are 1.2M and when I removed images form them, deleted unused items, and published at a lower jpg setting my fla files are ranging between 3-6.6M and the swf that once was 32K is 1.2M. a swf that was once 684K is now 2.4M. I only removed things from the file, added no new tweens or AS and saved as (getting a huge file) and then published, using the lowest possible settings! does anyone know what's going on here? Thank you in advance.

  by E on 2008-03-15 15:41:52

• There is a kind of solution, or more like a workaround which PREVENTS you from accidentally saving Flash 8 as Flash CS3. Once you get used to it, it's ok... I just changed my Keyboard Shortcuts (Edit > Keyboard Shortcuts...) - I reasigned Ctrl + S to "Save As..." (thereby unassigning it from "Save") so when I press Ctrl + S, the "Save As..." box pops up, but then I can easily save it as Flash 8. The "Flash 8" option is already selected if I have already saved it as Flash 8. Just do it, you'll see what I mean. At least this KEEPS YOU from accidentally saving Flash 8 as Flash CS3. If anyone thinks Adobe is just too busy to fix this so called "bug" they are very, very, very naive.

  by Peter on 2008-11-07 19:51:23

• Sorry all it is also not perfect issue not save in flash 8 file format.

  by Parvesh on 2008-12-11 05:19:05

• Help! Can I save a Flash CS3 document so that I can open it in Flash Basic 8? I keep getting this prompt: "Unable to open document with this version of Flash because it contains screens"

  by Aaaargh! on 2008-10-21 01:55:56

• So, I got a bunch of files i need to update that were originally created in Flash 8. So if I run the swf files or even test the movies without touching them in ANY way, everything works properly. Now, with out touching the code or anything in the files, the moment i save the file as a Flash CS3 project the program doesnt work anymore. Has anyone experienced this problem?

  by Nigel on 2008-10-03 12:41:20

• Hi all, I have solved the given problem. Steps to solve: 1. Click on File -> Preferences or Press (Ctrl+U) 2. Then click on Warnings 3. Then unselect the option "Warn on save for Adobe Flash 8 compatibility"

  by Parvesh on 2008-12-11 05:04:27

• Kindly reply me on this solutions, I m waiting for ur reply

  by Parvesh on 2008-12-11 05:07:02

• Please ignore First step use Edit -> Preferences

  by Parvesh on 2008-12-11 05:11:28

• Hi Parvesh, What you're doing is removing the warning (i.e., completely removing the user's choice to save in a previous version). It's not a solution to the problem mentioned in this post.

  by Aral on 2008-12-11 18:09:50