Aral Balkan: Historical Archive — How fair is geographical pricing on the Internet?

How fair is geographical pricing on the Internet?

It seems like the pricing announcement of any major product these days is accompanied by obligatory outrage over geographical price differences. These are not isolated incidents and they underscore a more fundamental problem as traditional business models are incorrectly applied to a new market of web-savvy international consumers.

The latest example of a backlash on geographical pricing inequalities is the one over Adobe's prices for its CS3 products in the UK and Europe. But why are people complaining? What exactly is the difference between adobe.com and adobe.co.uk? Three characters, it would seem, and approximately $1,527 less in your pocket if you're buying Creative Suite 3 Design Premium.

Creative Suite 3 Design Premium costs $3,326.26 in the UK and $1,799 in the US. Similarly, Creative Suite 3 Web Premium costs $2,820.66 in the UK and just $1,599 in the us. Basically, a difference in three characters in the domain name that you buy your software from translates to those of us in the UK paying double for the same software. You can see why people are a little pissed off.

Similar outrage has ensued recently over the pricing of the PS3, pricing of Vista and the pricing of music on the iTunes stores.

Microsoft's pricing for Vista sparked a petition to 10 Downing Street that reads: "We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to bring pressure on Microsoft to stop them overcharging the UK for its Vista Operating System." The petition, brought forward by Paul Milne, continues:

There is a huge difference in the price that people in the US and the UK are paying for Windows Vista the new Microsoft Operating System. As an example of this, in the UK a full copy of Vista Ultimate would cost you £350, in the US it would cost you £195. The US version of Vista is exactly the same as the UK version. There is no difference. Therefore I can see no reason for there to be such a huge difference in prices between the UK and the US other than Microsofts belief that the UK customers will pay more than their US counterparts. I ask people to sign this petition in the hope that the Prime Minister will bring pressure to bear on Microsoft over their pricing as it is my belief they are simply overcharging the people of the UK and therefore are ripping us off.

The bit that stands out for me is the last line: Microsoft's pricing scheme has led at least the 9,807 people who have signed that petition feel that they are getting ripped off. It appears that Adobe is following Microsoft's lead here when they have great opportunity to distance themselves from Microsoft's tactics at a key point in their competitive relationship.

Adobe has announced the launch of their new CS3 line of products containing new and improved versions of previous software such as Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, etc (details on www.adobe.com).
With new products comes new pricing... fair enough. However, prices for the same product (i.e. the mac design premium upgrade from CS2.0) go from 599$ for an upgrade in the US to 1'057$ in Switzerland and 1'134$ in France and Germany, the worse being 1'178 $ for the UK... not fair enough! (all prices excl. tax).
Prices in Europe have always been a little higher, but 190% of the US price is pushing it!
There is an interesting comparison at the following address: http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html that shows the difference in pricing between Apple and Adobe software.
Once I have gathered enough signatures, I will communicate this petition to Adobe and to the European/Swiss commissions of competition.
In the meantime, if you can, don't purchase the upgrade, it's the best pressure we can have...

Currently, that petition has 5,898 signatures. I am unsure whether the author's intent to communicate the petition to the European/Swiss commissions of competition will have any affect, however. The reason the European Commission can investigate Apple is because its iTunes store sets different prices for songs between European countries and stops European consumers from being able to purchase a song from a different European store. That made it fall within the jurisdiction of the EC, who can investigate whether it infringes on European trade regulations. (The prices range from 66p a song in France to 79p a song in the UK.)

I don't know of any body that has jurisdiction over pricing differences between the US and Europe. At the end of the day, I don't believe that this is an issue that can be resolved by legislation. It will only get resolved if Adobe sees the business sense in not alienating its European customers.

This ZDNet article on the same subject has the following justification proposed by Adobe to explain the difference in pricing:

Adobe sets pricing in each market based on customer research, local market conditions and the cost of doing business. The costs of doing business in European markets are significantly higher per unit of revenue than in the US . . . Pricing is higher in Europe on many goods, not just software.

It's true that we pay more for everything here in the UK and that we charge more for things too (the British Pound is about twice as strong as the US Dollar at the moment.) And, if Adobe was creating tangible goods in a factory located in the UK, it could easily justify the price difference based on the difference in the cost of doing business in the UK. They would have to pay their employees more in the UK, raw materials would cost more in the UK, and thus it would make sense to implement local pricing for their goods. But Adobe doesn't manufacture in the UK and it doesn't sell tangible goods.

The software that Adobe makes gets made in the US and in India. The additional cost to Adobe of selling this software in Europe is negligible. Adobe has a relatively tiny staff in Europe, mostly sales and marketing, so it cannot defend the pricing model based on having to pay higher wages to local staff. Of course, at the end of the day, Adobe can choose to sell its products in Europe at whatever price it wants to but it has to weigh the potential impact of its actions in alienating European customers and possibly pushing them to download or even purchase pirated copies.

The argument also falls flat on its face when you consider Adobe's pricing for third-world countries. If Adobe consistently applied the rationale it uses in its defense, Creative Suite 3 Design Premium would cost about $179 in India given that India's per capita income is about 10 times lower than that of the US. Something tells me that's not going to happen. I was going to check the prices in their store in India but apparently they don't have one. When I tried to check the prices on their South African store, I got redirected to an International store page that has almost no products for sale and definitely does not contain information on the CS3 line. If anyone does know the price of the various CS3 products in these countries, please do leave a comment so we can compare them and see if in fact they are priced lower based on "local market conditions and the cost of doing business".

The biggest fault with Adobe's argument, however, is that it shows a complete lack of understanding of the core issue here. The problem here is not so much that Adobe sets different prices for the US and Europe but that it bars European customers from using its US store. People do not like barriers on the Internet and here we have a huge "Keep Off!" sign on the US Adobe Store.

What Adobe (and many other traditional businesses) do not understand is that the traditional axiom that you should price your products close to the maximum that the market will bear does apply to the Internet. The caveat is that the Internet is the market. Segmenting the Internet into smaller geographical regions is an artificial segregation and is perceived by citizens of the Internet as unfair.

You could argue that Adobe has to do this or else everyone will buy from the online US store. That's just not true. If Adobe offered a true value add to buying the software in Europe -- like local support, for example -- I'm sure that large businesses would pay the difference. And there will always be people who prefer to buy boxed software from retail stores. And if small businesses and individuals do end up buying their software from the US store, Adobe will still get far more dosh than if these same individuals get pissed off and pirate their software.

This appears to be an issue that is important to a great number of people and I do hope that Adobe addresses it.

Comments

I hope it goes to the EEC level - because the only fair answer from Adobe would be: "because we can".
by Philippe on 2007-04-18 14:18:58
It's pretty clear Adobe is simply celebrating American pride. It's called a tariff. And this is revenge for the tea tax. But seriously, can we build custom Adobe software bundles, and get a discount? It seems like every prepackaged bundle has software I don't want, and is lacking software I do want. I would like to build my own combo please.
by LEE on 2007-04-18 21:29:40
Andrew, you have all those workers, distributors, ... and you advertise in Europe, because it's profitable. But if it's profitable thanks to this ridiculous situation, seen as abusive by me and many other people, don't have them here and don't advertise here. Do you think I really care if there is an office, a store or a representative of Adobe here in Portugal? No I don't. And I have no idea if such thing exists here. I may never leave home and live in front of the computer. I can do anything from here, just like any other person in the US. Why make me pay much more because I'm sitting here? adobe.pt exists, but it's redirected to adobe.com/pt/, with some sections in Portuguese where you can easily find spelling mistakes or Brazilian Portuguese. I don't want to have support in Portuguese and I don't want that you support a Portuguese Operating System version. But if anyone wants, make them pay for it, not me. Does Adobe prefer that customers don't upgrade their software or use it illegally? As far as I know, all I need is a serial number. Can't I ask a friend in the US to buy one for me? I could even buy the software from amazon.com and send it to my friend's in the US, couldn't I?
by Nuno Mira on 2007-04-18 23:49:56
I finally found the price for the Web Premium package in Brazil: R$ 5567 BRL, roughly $ 2736.70 USD. Keep in mind this is for the original, english version (I don't buy localized/translated software). For an emerging market where piracy is such a huge a concern, where they have almost zero staff compared to other markets, where the cost of living is VERY different from US, and where support is nonexistent, does it really make sense to charge 174% of the original software price? Thankfully, it seems to allow upgrades from Studio 8 so at least my freelance ass is more or less covered. But I can't help but think that Adobe is just trying to kill any reason people would have to go/keep going legal on such a market.
by Zeh on 2007-04-19 02:46:28
[...] Aral Balkan recently wrote an article around this subject. It and its comments are worth a read. I’m hoping that Adobe will listen and act, rather than trot out a stream of excuses. [...]
by are adobe ripping off UK cusotmers? « creacog on 2007-04-19 12:51:55
@638ways I have no idea whether we get the English or the American version - if there is a difference. I wasn't aware of there being an "international version" and thought you referred to the localization costs Adobe claims. We pay European prices, that is for sure. I am not complaining about having to pay the same as the English, I am complaining about not paying the same as the Americans.
by Adriana on 2007-04-21 11:41:05
Andrew, I live in Cyprus, which is in Europe but is not recognised as an "Adobe Country" according to someone at Adobe in the UK. Adobe does not have a sales or Marketing prescence in Cyprus nor does it advertise here. So I should not have to pay a premium for Adobe's sales and marketing activities which are outside the country I live in. In fact, as my billing address is in Cyprus, I cannot actually purchase any Adobe product online since none of the Adobe stores allow billing addresses in Cyprus (a member of the European Union for several years now). Surely people who live in countries where there is no adobe representation should be able to purchase Adobe product from an "International online store" - But I expect that would cos so much to set up the prices would probably be trebled. Why not just let people from those other countries, like Cyprus, order from the US store? I would still pity those with UK etc. billing addresses, but I personally can't even purchase/upgrade a product online to download at all. Or, Adobe could just re-enable PayPal payments on the US store - then Adobe does not have to worry about the billing address.
by Mark Shelley on 2007-04-25 12:51:06
T-H-A-N-K Y-O-U!
by Savvas Malamas on 2007-04-18 12:10:25
I've had a rant about this myself. They add insult to injury by trotting out the following 'reasons': "The price of software in EMEA (Europe, middle East and Africa) reflects both the additional expense to develop and test Adobe’s applications for local markets and operating systems, as well as for the delivery of complimentary Warranty support. Adobe’s complimentary Warranty support covers product installation and defect issues for the life of the current version of Adobe’s desktop applications." "Although Adobe Europe and Adobe US are different parts of the same global company European Marketing strategies and pricing are not directly related on those used for the US. The prices are not simply converted from the dollar pricing used for US products, therefore, the pricing used for each country in the EMEA region may vary." To me this just doesn't add up. Especially if you attempt an online purchase in the UK: "I regret but since our server is based in the Republic of Ireland where VAT is charged at 21% our downloads are more expensive than boxed goods which are shipped locally from the UK." If the same logic was applied to the development of the products - they'd all be rubbish. Why can't Adobe see that this is just nuts!
by creacog on 2007-04-18 12:38:22
Love the article, Aral! Nice work.
by P.J.E. Immerzeel on 2007-04-18 12:48:06
Glad to hear there's so many petitions about this now! How about buying it in a store in the USA, or Canada this weekend? :) Is that allowed?
by Michiel van der Ros on 2007-04-18 12:54:56
Basically we all know there's no real defense for such vast price difference. I mentioned it last night a LFPUG. Mike Downey from Adobe was understandably a little sheepish but I know it's not his reponsibilty (the stuff that was his was great - thanks for coming). Comments like it's 'industry standard' where mentioned. Hiding under Microsofts example doesn't cut it when you're trying to give the impression of being a different type of company. I hope Adobe realize the bad taste in the mouth you get whenever you purchase one of their products knowing you could get it for nearly half the price. It's defiantly something we all wish could be addressed in a fairer manner...
by paddy on 2007-04-18 12:58:49
Aral, well put! Thank you for blogging about this. I wonder if anybody reading this knows if and how it will be possible to upgrade a EU-English license to a US license. Dutch Adobe support told me that it wouldn't be possible out of the pox (it wouldn't activate) and US-adobe support isn't giving me any answer (2 unanswered/pending case since March) how to get it activated in a non-out-of-the-box manner. Does anyone reading this know if this is even possible and how to get this done?
by Benny on 2007-04-18 13:05:48
This issue needs some serious attention, thanks for your post Aral! There's always been a price difference but it is clearly getting out of hand. I can't make sense of it -- I couldn't even give colleagues in France any advice on pricing as it apparently differs from here in Belgium, a one hour drive away. The petition has certainly got my vote. I'm not sure if the EEC will have a case here if its brought before them, while pricing is different in European member states there is nothing stopping people from buying in another member state. I know Abdul Qabiz has had some serious problems with the Adobe online store in India. http://www.abdulqabiz.com/blog/archives/general/adobe_online_store_n.php Adobe has a global reach but is still very much US-centric, I've raised the point of the serious problems with localized Adobe sites a few weeks ago but it seems to be low on the priority list.
by Peter Elst on 2007-04-18 13:34:31
Great article - very well put.
by Bryan Rieger on 2007-04-18 14:39:10
i'm not trying to be a smartass, but there is always the option to not buy their software. we all vote with our wallets. sure, they seem to have a monopoly on high-end graphic software, but that's not due to them squishing everything in sight - it's because their software is very good. nothing is stopping competition from cropping up.
by Janos on 2007-04-18 15:46:24
I feel your pain, but think you underestimate the complexity of the problem. Marketing in Europe costs roughly the same as marketing in the US. But the amount of units sold in Europe per euro spent on sales & marketing is much lower. Plus some countries have exclusive distributors who take a cut before Adobe sees a penny. Then you have to take into account the fluctuating value of the dollar when planning, and hedge against further devaluation. All of that stuff means it really is more expensive to sell in Europe than in the US. That isn't a complete justification, but it isn't just rampant greed that makes US companies charge more in Europe. Things would be a lot better if the dollar wasn't so damn weak. Not to mention that I can't afford to take vacations in Europe anymore... :-)
by Andrew Shebanow on 2007-04-18 17:19:23
Hi, I know that the petition and discussion have received attention within the shop, and that there have been static "talk tracks" created for Customer Service and PR, but I haven't been successful yet in encouraging a public discussion of the subject. Lots of Adobe staffers are in the same position Mike Downey was at the meeting -- we're not the primary owners of the issue, so we can't really talk about it ourselves. Some context which may help, though, is that code production is only one aspect of the total cost. One strategy is to do everything in California and sell only through the WWW at a flat rate. With that you'd have only exchange-rates and tax/regulatory differences to calculate. But I think that having Adobe staff in the different local communities around the world is important in many profound ways, and paying for that local presence is the key factor in regional pricing differences. I'd prefer Adobe to be a truly global company, myself, rather than just a fly-in, fly-out US company. Difficult issue. I'm sorry that I and my public-facing partners can't really engage on this... what you pose is definitely a valid question. You're not being ignored, though, if that weak consolation is of any help. jd/adobe
by John Dowdell on 2007-04-18 17:20:15
Hi Andrew,
I feel your pain, but think you underestimate the complexity of the problem.
None of the points you mention explains why Europeans are *barred* from purchasing software from the US store. That's the key problem here, not the local pricing of Adobe's products in Europe. I don't think anyone would mind if Adobe set different prices for Europe if people were allowed to buy the software from the US store. Implementing that is *not* complicated in any way. The biggest complication would be to handle international shipping. If that's too complicated for Adobe to handle, why not just offer download-only purchases. I don't think anyone would complain. The current policy of barring European users from the US online store only serves the purpose of forcing them to buy the software locally and brings with it the complexities you described. I don't believe that I am underestimating the complexity involved in selling Internationally from your online store in the US. Many software companies, even small ones that sell shareware, handle this without any trouble whatsoever. The changes you would have to implement are simply:
- Provide a country drop-down box in the checkout form so people can enter a country other than the US.
- Make sure you accept non-US zip codes (postal codes)
That should be all that's required to accept foreign orders on your web site. The proposed solution is very simple. It simply requires the will to allow your European customers to purchase and download software from the online store in the US. There is no complexity involved in implementing that -- in fact, it should simplify your code as you won't have to do the fancy ip-based geographic filtering that you're currently carrying out. @JD: My experience may be tinted by Adobe's presence in the UK but I don't personally see the value of the Adobe staff in the UK to the local community. The Adobe office here is sales and marketing and the only time the community is contacted by them is from one software launch to another. If you need anything done, you have to talk to someone in the US anyway. That's been my experience in any case.
by aral on 2007-04-18 18:10:02
Last time I asked, Macromedia (as they were then) reluctantly admitted that a copy of their software bought in the US could be used and registered in the UK. Ever since then, I've been buying my software from America. I wonder if Adobe have changed the legality of this, but presumably there's nothing stopping us buying copies for our British chums the next time we visit? Seb
by Seb on 2007-04-18 18:39:47
[...] I know compared to my Flash friends outside of the U.S. I don’t have much to complain about but DANG! Adobe can send out AS3,Flash,Flex API posters to anyone who wants them for free (and I appreciate it) but we’ve gotta pay twenty dollars per download? I think that’s lame and especially lame to repeat customers. They should have made the upgrade price twenty dollars more to begin with and then no one would be pissed. [...]
by WHAT?!!!! » Brandon Ellis Dot Org on 2007-04-18 19:10:42
[...] It seems like the pricing announcement of any major product these days is accompanied by obligatory outrage over geographical price differences. These are not isolated incidents and they underscore a more fundamental problem as traditional business models are incorrectly applied to a new market of web-savvy international consumers. Fully Story This really annoy me especially on downloadable software?. Bookmark to: 1809 Posted in Flash, Rants, Tech News [...]
by GM.com » Blog Archive » How fair is geographical pricing on the Internet? on 2007-04-18 19:55:26
Sorry if I wasn't clear. You are quite correct that we could allow people to buy online from the Adobe store in the US, disabling the check is in fact not particularly difficult from a technical point of view. But the repercussions of allowing Europeans to buy at US prices could be huge. We do advertising in Europe, we have people who work in Europe, we have distributors in Europe, we have to deal with currency conversion rates and hedges, we have localization costs, taxes, etc. These are costs, and you can never get away from those costs as long as you sell into a particular geography. If you compare costs per unit sold you will see that the numbers are higher in Europe than almost anywhere else in the world. Should lower cost per unit areas of the world (e.g. North America) be subsidizing European costs, paying higher prices so that prices are roughly comparable worldwide? That may seem fair in Europe, but I doubt the US and Canadian customers would see it that way.Higher prices will mean that North American unit sales would then go down by some percentage (even tiny changes can equal big amounts of dollars when you've got a billion dollar business), while lower prices in Europe would make their unit sales go up, and then you get to iterate on the problem til you reach some sort of equilibrium. Could Adobe have done things differently or better? Possibly. But I'm just trying to show how things are complicated, and the level of analysis presented here doesn't really begin to explain how things really work. Business schools teach entire courses on issues of optimizing product revenues vs. costs across geographies. Even so, its more art than science. Hope I was clearer this time.
by Andrew Shebanow on 2007-04-18 22:46:58
I made a comparison of the prices here: http://www.flashmagazine.com/1396.htm Andrew: > We do advertising in Europe, we have people who work in Europe, we have distributors in Europe I can't see how this differs from the same things in the US? One must assume these people do their job of selling software? The US is obviously a more homogenous market and such easier to target marketing wise, but honestly - 200% is a lot. > Should lower cost per unit areas of the world (e.g. North America) be subsidizing European costs It obviusly does not have to, but several global companies that are aware of how the web IS the market thinks this way and use the same price wherever you are. Currencies vary and they always have. Companies have dealt with this for ages, so why such a need to play safe and over-charge europeans?
by Jensa on 2007-04-18 23:14:38
@Andrew: I believe that the level of analysis presented here is that your customers in Europe are pissed off and they don't want to hear about percentages and complicated equations but would rather like to receive what they perceive is a fair deal. You can quote a hundred spreadsheets if you like but the core issue is very simple. European customers are feeling ripped off and they are feeling as if an artificial barrier is blocking them from getting a fair deal. I hope those business classes also teach that it's not good long-term business practice to piss off your customer base and then talk down to them. I don't think the "it's complicated -- you wouldn't understand" line is going to help with this issue -- if anything, it's probably going to make it worse. I would strongly urge having a talk with PR and coming up with a different corporate strategy to handle this one.
by aral on 2007-04-18 23:58:19
@John Dowdell thank you for at least keeping us informed. yes, we realise that this particular subject is outside your personal control but getting honest feedback that there *are* ears listening is somewhat heartening. There is nothing worse than bringing an important matter up and getting absolutely no feedback (not even recognition that the message has been heard). @Aral Our experience is somewhat different. Here in Australia we have a strange problem where we have a huge country (larger than all of Europe) with only 20 million people (with corresponding sales). The personal "touch" Adobe people (e.g Mark Blair, Mark Schulz, Andrew Spaulding, Brian Chau, et al) is invaluable to keep the Adobe community alive in this country. Because of our isolation our community is the first tier support. After that we can call on industry professionals to take matters further to Adobe Australia or back to the US (like the Flexbuilder 2 Win-Mac license transfer mess). We've had to learn to be pretty much self sufficient. Should this equate to higher product prices to pay for these local people to keep a presence here? hopefully not since there's only 18 for Australia NZ and we'd lose far more for the community. on a side note, Scott Barnes (now with Microsoft) got strips torn off him (figuratively speaking) over this very issue with Vista pricing. We all knew there was nothing Scott could do about it (except perhaps pass it up the food chain) but we all enjoyed "sticking the boot in" given the lack of any other easy targets... eh, my 2c
by barry.b on 2007-04-19 01:06:31
In the past I have bought ** boxed ** software from Macromedia through their US office who shipped it to Australia without any problem. I ordered over the phone, paid US prices and was even eligible for a discount that was offered only to the US. What's changed?
by Adrian on 2007-04-19 02:25:04
The funny thing is they always say they can't lower third world prices to reflect third world wages. So it is possible to charge people more if they you think they can afford it, but not less if they obviously can't. Funny world. Jerks.
by Robin Debreuil on 2007-04-19 03:53:54
I raised the question in an earlier comment update if it would be possible to upgrade a EU-english-license to a US-license. I've been waiting for an answer on this one from Adobe for 3 weeks but today I did get it at last *pfew*. It comes down to that it is NOT possible to upgrade EU to US. Furthermore I was told that when I buy the FULL software in the US (for example through a online shop like toolform.com which told me they would be happy to ship the product to the Netherlands) I would NOT get support from Adobe-EU in Europe because the program is American NOR would I get support from Adobe-US because I live in Europe. So if we want to keep the support channel open they've got us pinned. @John, I don't see any benifits from having local Adobe staff (I am in the business for 7 years now). Online they are nowhere to be seen and I have a strong feeling that the occasional conference is only visited by a small group of Adobe users. Support can't give you any answers you already find on the Internet and often their answers are even in English (copied from Adobe's faq maybe?). I would rather see more online conferences/presentations and workshops. As others already pointed out, Adobe should see it's market as a global Internet Market in which users became used to flat world wide prices and community support. And again thanks for listening ;-) Regards, Benny
by Benny on 2007-04-19 10:51:25
Benny, If that's what they answered, they must be kidding. 1. If you lived in Europe and moved to the US will you have to buy the full version because you're not entitled to an upgrade. Just brilliant. Obviously you could buy the EU upgrade... or maybe not. As you are living in the US now, the EU store is blocked to you. Adobe's products make distinction between US and EU serials when upgrading? That's a strange form of racism... And this is new for sure. Because Macromedia didn't do it. 2. Does Adobe support track you on satellite? How will they know that you're in Europe?
by Nuno Mira on 2007-04-19 11:59:21
There are obviously complexities in international business. From a customer point of view though when I start hearing about; ‘distributors, currency conversion rates and hedges’ I just want to put my hands in my ears and go 'I'm not listening'. Complexity is easy, simplicity is hard. What screams out at me are these's 2 values: $3,326.26 UK $1,799 US Simple. Are Adobe saying it costs roughly twice as much to do business in UK? Think about it - Having an international presents is great for Adobe, without being too biases I like to think your European customers add a certain panache and style to your products. You only have to look at the line up of top developers/designers and I'd say at least half are international. We're a global community. Unfortunately the price of software is starting to get prohibitive for creativity. Let’s not forget all the plug-ins people also need for aftereffects and Photoshop. It's a ton of wanger. We're lucky as we've got offices in US so will prob try and buy upgrades through there. It's the people who were in my position a few years ago I feel sorry for as they also need far more software then we used to for all the creative possibilities. Adobe should see themselves as online and global, one price for all. From some of the comments above I actually wonder if European prices are subsiding US one with all this talk of unit price? I actually don't mind paying slightly more but as I said at the moment it like having to 'bend over and take one for the team' every time we make a purchase.
by paddy on 2007-04-19 12:05:58
Whow... another reply form Adobe-EU, this time from french-custserv@adobe.com (no I am not French but Dutch ;-) ...local support heh ;-). But hey it seems they really do want to be friends again, because this support person is sending me 'kisses' now *lol* This is the email I got and although the bulk is in English he/she decided to end the email with a dutch greeting that translated says: "With kind kisses". :-) --- Thank you for contacting Adobe Customer Services. You cannot upgrade a European Serial Number with a US Serial Number. It just will not work, and no one will unlock you, you would not be supported anywhere. Please do not answer to this email but in a web case, if you need to answer. Should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us. Met vriendelijke kussjes, --- @Nuno Mira, they have their sources I guess to tell from where you are, e.g.: 1) from your credit card number 2) IP number 3) if you phone them from your caller ID 4) shipping address 5) .... Okay you could argue that some of these can be circumvented (download via open proxy, register with a fake US address) but then your probably illegalising your copy I guess. Anyway that's not what I wantm I just want a legal and fully supported copy at a fair (US) price. But it's becoming more and more clear to me that's not going to happen.
by Benny on 2007-04-19 13:23:02
The Pound is now nearly twice the value of the American dollar. So it only makes sense to double the price in the UK?
by LEE on 2007-04-19 13:47:01
Microsoft software will sell for just $3 (£1.50) in some parts of the world in an attempt to double the number of global PC users. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6571139.stm now there's an idea ;)
by paddy on 2007-04-19 14:06:03
Great post Aral. But I think the real injustice is not the disparity in pricing between the US and the EU but the disparity between developed countries and the rest of the world (you touched on this issue with your mention of India). Even if the US::EU ratio has changed a bit, the orders of magnitude are the same as when Macromedia offered Studio MX in 2004. I built this chart three years ago to show the differences: http://since1968.com/article/149/.
by since1968 on 2007-04-19 15:54:40
"Anyway that’s not what I wantm I just want a legal and fully supported copy at a fair (US) price." unfortunately that's not exactly what Adobe wants for us, and almost the rest of the world. I'm starting to hate Adobe...
by Nuno Mira on 2007-04-19 16:26:13
I absolutely acknowledge that the current pricing, regardless of its cause, is causing some pain and strong feelings of unfairness. I realize that on an absolute scale that the prices are high and wish there was more I could do about it. But on the other side you should acknowledge that a lot of the factors that cause these high prices are not in Adobe's control. Yesterday's news was full of stories about how the English Pound and the Euro were at or near all time highs against the dollar. Also, if the impression I gave in my argument was "it is too complicated for you to understand" then I apologize. I'm just trying to point out that "prices should be the same everywhere" is an overly simplistic argument. I'm not an MBA and don't pretend to understand the issues completely myself - but I've read up on this enough to have a basic understanding which I've tried to share. Anyone with sufficient motivation could do their own research and know enough to argue me under the table in short order. :-) I also want to speak out a bit in defense of Microsoft. I'm not a huge fan as anyone who reads my blog knows, but Microsoft is just as helpless in the face of exchange rate issues as anyone else, and they have exactly the same issues around cost per unit that Adobe does. Feel free to keep beating on us Adobeans, though - it doesn't hurt to make Adobe and Microsoft know how you feel, and Adobe and Microsoft in turn can try to influence governments to correct the inbalances. Even as big as these companies are, though, I'm not sure how much can really get done. Oil companies, Haliburton, etc. all have far more influence and often benefit from currency imbalances.
by Andrew Shebanow on 2007-04-19 16:57:17
Hi, Contact you local MP's and ask them to contact EU.
by Kim on 2007-04-19 18:11:51
Andrew - your point about exchange rates does not hold up. Here in Norway, the price of Adobe (and formerly Macromedia products) will rise and fall based on the dollar. It is continously adjusted to compensate for that, so it's not a point at all. Adobe will get their fixed amount of dollars no matter the exchange rate. This is nothing but abuse of customers. J
by Jensa on 2007-04-19 18:49:40
here's a good writeup that I think hasn't been posted yet: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/05/pay_twice_you_wish/ I personally do not stand for this pricing, in fact I rather do away with support and buy from the US. Easy if you know someone over there. Plus with a US number (Vonage anyone) they'd probably never find out, although I do not know how they determine your location. If it's IP based then heck, I'm on vacation in the UK :-P
by Stefan Richter on 2007-04-19 20:53:08
@Andrew "about how the English Pound and the Euro were at or near all time highs against the dollar." you're argument doesn't hold up. It should take less Euro/pounds/Aus$ for the same US$. it wasn't that long ago when Aus$1.00 would buy US$0.50. now Aus$1.00 is US$0.83. Imports all over are getting cheaper for us as a result (and our exports more expensive). no matter how much spin you put on it, we're getting screwed.
by barry.b on 2007-04-19 23:46:36
I've always been a big advocate of the software mantra "If you make money from it, buy it", and I've never had a problem with higher prices in the UK (when they appear to be justified), but I can see why so many developers I know, suggest moving away from proprietary software. In a situation like this, Adobe appear to have its developers over a barrel ,whether their prices are fair or not. It's hard for developers to vote with their feet when they have invested a lot of time and money in one particular product (very hard for a product like Flash where so many developers are self-taught and have no prior programming knowledge). I don't see why my English copy of Flash should cost so much more. It is not localised, I don't use Adobe support and I will purchase the download version. I also fail to see how the current rate of inflation is a valid argument - Adobe will get the same $ amount, regardless. Whereas I would previously have bought my own copy, I will now just use the one provided by my employer for as long as possible. If I need to buy it, I will pay the higher price, reluctantly. Perhaps many who can't afford it, and those can't vote with their feet will simply adopt a different mantra: "If you're being screwed, warez it". Of course Adobe won't lose out. Any additional loss of sales through pirate copies will of course be subsidised by those of us who have to pay extra to buy a legit copy.
by nwebb on 2007-04-20 08:16:27
So...if it's because of currency fluctuations will Adobe-and to be fair many other software companies-lower their prices when the dollar eventually strengthens? No-of course not-they'll only lower their prices when the market demands it does. Dare I suggest http://www.gimp.org/ or http://www.gimpshop.com/ anyone?
by Paul on 2007-04-20 11:53:11
The thing is, I think Adobe had an alright reputation before all this arose, but now my view of the company isn't as shiny as it once was. I can understand that there may be costs associated with selling the product in Europe, but to charge over double the price in some countries is harsh. Totally agree with Robin Debreuil's comment above. Sony's reputation has been damaged over the last few years over their handling of the PSP and PS3 (selling an inferior product, the PAL PS3, to Europe for much more is just a rip-off). I can't see Adobe backing down over this issue, so it looks like Europe have to put up with things. From memory, didn't Macromedia charge a low price for Flash 8 in order to get it in the hands of as many developers as possible? Seems to have gone completely the other way with this latest release. I would've thought the amount the development community gives back to Adobe might've encouraged them to think twice over the European pricing. So, no trial of Flash CS3 online and unfair pricing means I'm going to have to wait before playing around with the software. Here's hoping my job buy it soon enough, but in the meantime I won't be able to sing any of Flash CS3's praises to those in positions to adopt the technology. Unhappy.
by coderkind on 2007-04-20 14:30:26
I can understand a slight premium in doing business from one continent to another but when you see price differences of 50% plus then one tends to raise an eyebrow. And you start to think about what makes it more expensive. The thing is that Andrew has so far failed to justify, in laymen's terms, to any level of satisfaction, is why the increase is so high. Yes there will be an increase, but at these levels, there is a serious problem with how Adobe runs its business model if it costs it so much more to do business outside the United States. I would suggest that Adobe withdraw from the very unprofitable international markets as it can only make a profit by covering its US costs and then a charging an 'internationalisation fee'. I'm making it sound like Abode is an American company that is doing a favour to the rest of the world by making its software available to those who aren't fortunate to benefit from being on American soil rather than being a truly international company that treats all its customers as equals. And that's the trouble. Adobe isn't acting like an international company. It's acting like we should be grateful that it makes the effort (and financial risk) to offer international versions at all considering that the overall costs are 50% or even 100% higher than doing it at 'home'. I wonder what percentage of sales at Adobe comes from international business and is it worth all this extra cost and extra risk if customers refuse pay such a high international premium?
by 638ways on 2007-04-21 10:30:03
@638ways "It’s acting like we should be grateful that it makes the effort (and financial risk) to offer international versions at all considering that the overall costs are 50% or even 100% higher than doing it at ‘home’." The price difference in The Netherlands cannot be explained by costs for an "international version". A Dutch version of Dreamweaver does not exist, the Dutch Adobe site is mostly in English, even the form where you can order your "Dutch" copy of CS3 is in English. It's only the price that is European.
by Adriana on 2007-04-21 10:56:07
@ Adriana But you get the International English version I assume? So surely you should share the additional costs like everyone else?
by 638ways on 2007-04-21 11:11:42
I cannot judge the true character of Andrew Shebanow, nor any other administration employees involved in global price structuring. That said, I perceive a lack of loyalty from Adobe to their clients. The proper response from Adobe would be, "We hear you guys, we agree, and we're doing everything in our power to balance prices globally. We expect to have this resolved within a month. For a list of the legal issues we're dealing with visit: www.adobe.com/fightthepower and feel free to email fightthepower@adobe.com with any qualified legal ideas that may help. Thanks!" That's ALL you and your employers need to say, and backup. Everything else sounds like snobbish bs.
by LEE on 2007-04-21 15:43:19
Andrew Shebanow might like to take a wider view of the issue first! If what he says is true, perhaps he can explain why: 1. Apple marks up less than 25% in Europe when Adobe marks up sbstantially more than 25% (and 'pro' hardware sales don't apper to be an influence) 2. Lightroom is pretty much evenly priced in Europe and the US 3. French/English versions of Photoshop in the US are the same price as the English version, yet more expensive that the English version in the UK 4. OTOH, French/German versions of Lightroom are the same price as the English version in the UK 5. I could go on: http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe_spin.html
by Nigel Moore on 2007-04-21 21:55:20
I just visited the Australian Adobe online store and it is even MORE expensive today. A$2,775 for the full boxed copy, A$865 if upgrading from Studio 8, A$2,425 if upgrading from just Photoshop, Illustrator or Dreamweaver alone. I don't mind the "upgrade" price so much - from memory it is quite a bit more than the upgrade from Studio MX 2004 to Studio 8. I am surprised that the price is A$200 higher than the previous mention. I will probably upgrade when I finish my current project (and get a bonus $1000) - or I might just by an XBox 360!
by Peter Tilbrook on 2007-04-22 04:34:48
Adobe can hardly condemn piracy when they're pirates themselves. Yahhhh
by Nigel Moore on 2007-04-22 09:15:41
Just out of interest here is the list of languages supported by Design Premium: * Arabic * Chinese Simplified (Windows only) * Chinese Traditional (Windows only) * Czech * Dutch * English * French * French (Canadian) * German * Greek * Hebrew * Hungarian * Italian * Japanese * Korean (Windows only) * Polish * Romanian * Russian * Spanish * Spanish (Latin American) * Spanish (North American) * Swedish * Turkish * Ukrainian
by 638ways on 2007-04-22 10:14:28
Please, can somebody explain to me if I go to America and bought directly Adobe CS3 Software and bring that software to Europe, will i be able to install it and to use it legally? Is it legal? I give a shit for their support and upgrades. I don't need them.
by Halex on 2007-05-07 11:05:03
@638ways The lanuages in this list are the languages of the supported operating systems, not of Adobe's CS3 software. see http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/web/faq/ where it says: In addition to Universal English, Adobe Creative Suite 3 Web Standard will be available in French, German, Italian, Japanese, and Spanish. The Windows version of Web Standard will be available in Chinese Simplified, Chinese Traditional, and Korean. WinSoft is also expected to release Czech, Polish, Russian, and Turkish versions of Creative Suite 3 Web Standard For more details, visit the WinSoft website.
by Adriana on 2007-04-22 12:01:18
Well, I've mentioned it before, but let me quote myself: "we have to remember that Adobe is not a fuzzy stuffed animal that brings us unconditional love, it’s a multi-billion dollar conglomerate which has a quasi-monopoly on creative computer tools and is ultimately only interested in its bottom line." If you ask me the U.S. Department of Justice should not have approved the merger as a resulting monopoly was highly probable. Adobe CEO Bruce Chizen was quoted as saying in Forbes: "There should be no concerns about industry monopoly as a result of this transaction. There is very little overlap between Adobe and Macromedia product lines, and all our products face competition from other companies." Right, a lot of products are serious competitors to Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and Flash as I'm sure you're all aware. For reference, the link is here: http://www.forbes.com/infoimaging/2005/08/30/elop-chizen-interview-cx_dl_0830ceos.html That being said, I think an equitable pricing strategy is price adjusted by region according to consumer price indexes. Prices are about twice as high in the UK than in Canada, regardless of whether it's locally manufactured or a service or not even a physical item. I agree with since1968 that the lack of pricing difference between developed and emerging countries is appalling. Textbook manufacturers sometimes publish "low-cost editions" for emerging Asian markets for example, so why can't the software industry do the same? I think in Adobe's case the widespread piracy of their products is beneficial for emerging markets who can't afford their ludicrous pricing schemes. In the case of other specialty products that are usually not pirated and that can help bring high-tech jobs in emerging markets (I'm thinking of engineering suites like AutoCad for example), low cost versions seems like a fair compromise.
by Patrick Mineault on 2007-04-23 19:46:30
>Prices are about twice as high in the UK than in Canada, regardless of whether it’s locally manufactured or a service or not even a physical item Perhaps you could explain the disparity between Adobe's mark-ups and those of Apple in Europe then? Or that fact that Lightroom prices in Europe are on a parr with those in the US? Or any of the other lame excuses that Adobe proffers, when in fact it's just milking a locked-in cash cow? http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe_spin.html
by Nigel Moore on 2007-04-23 21:43:56
I am living in germany und will see that I get the software by an American contact. One problem could be the Adobe License Manager Service ... but blocking the usage of software by international IP range can´t be legal.
by Markus on 2007-04-24 12:59:34
@Aral: Thanks for the post. I understand how it feels when see certain things costs so much in your country where its almost half or less in other... We feel the pain for electronic items but that's due to Indian customs... Adobe's lower price in India could be because of higher piracy.. It feels bad I know, it's like our goverments who keep increasing Taxes for tax payers and do nothing for them, where as folks who can pay tax but don't still live the life same way... I am upset with Indian government attitude for entire tax stuff... I can find the similarity somewhere.. I believe, businesses are opportunistic and look for a way to compensate... [quote] I don’t believe that I am underestimating the complexity involved in selling Internationally from your online store in the US. Many software companies, even small ones that sell shareware, handle this without any trouble whatsoever. The changes you would have to implement are simply: * Provide a country drop-down box in the checkout form so people can enter a country other than the US. * Make sure you accept non-US zip codes (postal codes) [/quote] I agree with you. I don't even have an option to choose "India" as country in my Adobe profile :) I can buy loads of other softwares online but not Adobe. Adobe does weird checks (line by line address check and also asks for CVV number ;)) @Andrew: I don't see you do any of marketing in India. I have just heard about one CS3 event after acquisition. There used to be two-three MAX but now nothing, I don't know where and how Adobe does marketing in India? We are still not able to buy even $10 FlashLite, oh its free now Thanks :) -abdul
by Abdul Qabiz on 2007-04-25 22:54:33
I hear the Hong Kong version is only $5. :D :) Seriously, though, how can they call it 'complimetary support' when you have to pay for it??
by Tunaranch on 2007-04-27 13:35:45
I want only add one more thing.: I bought every singele version from Dreamweaver / Fireworks Version 1 to MX. I downloaded and paid directly from Macromedia in the US. I still have my active account there and can download my paid veriosns. When I tried to upgrade to DW8 I was suddnely informed by Adobe that this won't be possible anymore and I had to get it from my local European distributor. If you look at the outreagious photos in Rostock, where anti-globalism people are fighting the police: This might be one of the reasons for violence. How can Adobe be brought to reason?
by Matt Canalegrande on 2007-06-06 08:06:40
I'm a Brit living in Australia who just purchased 1 CS3 Web Premium suite for his office in Sydney. For $885 AUD if i'd wanted the manual, or 30% more. Our UK office has 9 seats plus a branch office with 3 seats - this office has 4 seats. We'll purchase one for the office in the UK. But apart from that, InDesign we're shelving (hello Publisher/Quark), Dreamweaver we're shelving (hello Microsoft Expression Web), Flex we've shelved (now using ASP.NET / Eclipse random tools), Director, After Effects and Audition we've shelved in favour of competing products. Now we won't have suite synergy, but the loss of 10 full suites of Adobe programs won't hurt us as much as we'd previously thought. We'll still have older versions of the software, don't need to worry about installation issues, problematic on PCs (4 of our 5 Vista PC's won't work for the trial versions) and also on Macs (beta/trial cleaning and admin accounts). And Abobe lose...........about US$10000 from their bottom line. We've had full suites of Adobe Macromedia products since Dreamweaver 1.2 and Photoshop 3.0. Voting with your feet is sometimes the only way - and then publicising it in a blog Adobe employees read.
by John Hancock on 2007-06-09 13:29:17
Going back over a year now i spotted the price differences in £ and $ for CS 2 and 3, I rang up Adobe sales in the USA and back then they would allow you to buy from UK and ship to a US address then to be forwarded. I emailed my MP and my Euro MP with no response, i think they was busy living it large at tax payers expenses to be bothered to take note of one persons complaint, I talked to the Office of Fair Trade who didn't want to get involved, I talked to FAST and FACT about the price of this product contibuting to digital theft, they also didn't want to know. Computer Arts, well i guess they got worried about advertising revenue from Adobe. Then about a week ago my company asked me to look into purchasing CS3 again having seen the price gap widen from last year I sent Adobe an email >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, so on the basis that i can't find any complaints area on the Adobe web site, i was wondering if you could tell me why there is such a BIG difference between buying.... lets say CS3 in the USA and yep you guessed it CS3 in the UK Same product same spec Full version in the US $1,799.95 = £909.839 Full version in the uk ex Vat £1,409.00 = $2,786.74 Thats a difference of $986.79 = £498.78 Me thinks you guys are having a bit of a laugh. I also think that if you ever want to combat digital piracy, you need to sort your greed out. Just for the record I object being charged well over the odds just so Adobe can pay for the eye patches, wooden legs and the dry cleaning bill for parrot poop. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With regard of your request I am hereby to inform you that pricing is higher in Europe on many goods, not just software, so it?s important to understand why. Adobe pricing is based on customer research, local market conditions and the cost of doing business. Unlike the economies of scale achieved in the large homogenous US market, the EU has 10 major languages, 4 major currencies and diverse regional markets. The costs of doing business in the European market are significantly higher per unit of revenue than in the US I hope to have informed you properly Yours Sincerely, Devis Pizzolato >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now i can smell BS when i see it so i chucked another email at them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Devis Pizzolato Having taken a couple of mins to work out the prices of CS3 in the other English speaking countries of the world i.e. Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Ireland, I find it hard to understand the huge differences in costing between what is being paid in the US and the UK and Commonwealth, same product same language (almost). I see that if I live in India and speak English I can buy at the same US $ price as the US so why can't I buy the US version of CS3 pay VAT and shipping to England? Just because the Marketing Department of Adobe have said "lets think of a number and double it", don't make it right... No matter how many times you say it. As I said in my first email I will not be purchasing this product at the price Adobe are trying force onto the UK market. I will also be actively trying to inform members of the UK's design world about Adobe's price....... Inconsistencies. It seems to me that digital piracy is a two way street, one side is legal the other isn't but both appear in this case to be morally wrong. September 19th is the International Talk Like a Pirate Day, just in case any Adobe management need practice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess subtlety is not my strong point, but im sick of Corporates like Adobe asking me to take a rectal examination every time i want to buy their product. Clem
by David Clemmett on 2007-06-12 11:32:02
The Creative Suite 3 Design Premium and Standard, Web Premium and Standard editions will be available at an estimated street price of $1,799 (Rs 75,225); $1,199 (Rs 50,136); $1,599 (Rs 66,862); and $999 (Rs 41,773) respectively from authorized resellers and the Adobe store. Courtesy http://www.techshout.com/
by Hafiz A Haq on 2007-06-21 05:57:28
[...] For more background on the controversy and the pushback consumers are starting to take - see: How fair is geographical pricing on the internet? http://aralbalkan.com/918 [...]
by Global brands - and the problem with geographic pricing « miro on 2007-09-04 15:59:19
I had avoided upgrading to CS3 Design Premium, not because I didn't think £600 was unreasonable for the upgrade, the reason was the unfair pricing policy compared to the US, and I did begrudge the rip-off policy of Adobe's. Things came to a head, leaving me no choice but to upgrade as specific jobs necessitated it. Not happy at the prospect of paying twice the price and all channels from the US seemingly thwarted by Adobe I rang the UK customer services. They stuck to their guns but did say I could write in and complain. I did. I got the official line back, but they did say that if I could find a US retailer to send it to me there was nothing to stop that. I then asked a very specific question. I asked if I purchased a US originated upgrade for CS3 Design Premium would it register and upgrade against my serial number for Macromedia Studio MX [a genuine qualifying product]. They said no! They lied! I didn't believe them, because an earlier email from one of the customer services reps intimated that it would work, which was the reason for the specific question. However I didn't want to risk wasting the money though, what next! I was working late one evening a couple of weeks ago, [when I realised I would have to upgrade] I downloaded the 30 day trial version of Flash CS3 for a specific job and set about making a purchase! It was about 9pm, and I realised the US would be awake so I telephoned Adobe customer services in the US and tried to buy from them, inevitably I couldn't, I was told FedEX don't make international deliveries!!!! The very helpful but nonetheless naive girl then suggested that I could buy from Adobe UK! Foiled again. I then rang back and asked the US the same question I asked the UK, she wasn't sure, she put me on hold to enquire, came back to me confused about languages and transfers, I explained again that it was a simple case of registering a US product against a UK serial number, she didn't know, but then she said "I'll try for you". Eureka! She plugged my serial number into her computer and said that it was fine and would register with no problems, I got her to repeat it to make sure. I now knew the UK lied and that if I could find a US retailer to send internationally I would be sorted. I got onto Amazon.com, they wont ship as Adobe have that blocked, but Marketplace retailers may do. I found one, who was selling a genuine un-registered copy @$562 !! even better. So in total it cost me $562 $77 shipping, £56 customs VAT and Parcelforce handling. Roughly half the standard UK price!!! Installed, registered and working perfectly this morning. So if anyone is feeling the same: I can confirm that registration against Macromedia Studio MX does work, ring Adobe in the US and get them to check your serial number. The US were very helpful, unlike the UK who are somewhat cagey about anything to do with upgrades and cost. I wonder why. Just how long will Adobe maintain their stance in what is quite clearly unfair to the rest of the world. It seems to me the rest of the world subsidises the US market, their standard defence about catering for other markets is rubbish as each market should be able to pay for itself, not catering for language variations would mean they are minimising their market. That argument would hold some water for other language variations, but unless it has escaped Adobe's notice, the primary language in the US is in fact English. The product is identical. Why the cost discrepency! They should charge 20% premium for logistics, that would be fair. What do the non English speaking US based customers do, of which there are many, do they buy a Spanish version at inflated cost because Adobe has to cater for other languages - I think not. When other software houses manage to charge relatively similar amounts across territories and exchange rates I suggest Adobe is doing something fundamentally wrong, if their argument is genuine. I suspect it's not, and they charge what they think the market will bear. If not they should take lessons from the others. That's my gripe, I could go on and on and quote Adobe's emails, which not surprisingly have exactly the same content as other quoted on this page but that would just be getting boring.
by Tony D on 2007-09-27 16:12:30
Thanks for the investigative reporting Tony D -- very interesting.
by Aral on 2007-09-27 20:45:25
[...] Ted Patrick just announced new Flex Builder 2 pricing, great news. But the skeptic in me had to check the UK pricing as we all know what happens. Well I’m happy to say the UK version appears to be in alignment with the US version! [...]
by Danny-T.co.uk » New Flex Builder 2 Pricing - UK too! on 2007-11-09 09:04:29
Andrew Shebanow: If the higher price of software in Europe is due to the higher cost of doing business there, then one assumes that in countries where the cost of doing business is much lower than it is in the States, Adobe products are priced accordingly, i.e. cheaper than in the US. Right? WRONG! They are priced higher than the US, possibly higher than Europe, and are often simply not available. This was the case 20 years ago when Autodesk sold Autocad in Egypt for several times the US price, and had zero additional expenses. They had an Egyptian distributor selling through whom was no more expensive than selling through any US distributor, probably cheaper since he was not extended credit. At the time sales tax in Egypt was 0% This is a pattern that many US businesses have followed for a long time, Adobe is just one more. And it's not just software; anybody want to guess what an Apple II was going for in Egypt in it's heyday? TENS of thousands of dollars at 1980's exchange rates. Maybe someone should calculate the difference between the cost of combating piracy (What is Microsoft's budget for that?) and the cost of selling software at the same price worldwide.
by Hassan El-Zayyat on 2007-11-06 15:43:27
An update on Australian prices - currently (27th Feb 2008) Aussie dollar stands at 93 US cents On the Aussie store, CS3 master collection is $4455 AUD - or $4161 US On the US store, CS3 master collection is $2499 US a price difference of $1662 US in a predominantly English speaking country for what is presumably exactly the same product. The usual European answer doesn't stand up, as the currency is the same and major language is English. Although the population is much smaller, I still don't see how such a huge markup is justified?
by Jon on 2008-02-27 04:15:55