The Balthaser Greed?
I just read that Neil Balthaser has apparently patented Rich Internet Applications. The patent is question is 7,000,180 and, having read through it, I don't see how it supports Neil's reported claim in the above article: "The broader claim is one that basically says that if you got a rich Internet application, it is covered by this patent."
The patent appears to be specifically about the sort of service that the -- now aged and somewhat pitiable -- Balthaser.com provides. In other words, a web-based application for building web applications.
In my reading of it, the patent appears to very specifically target a certain type of application. In the abstract alone it states that the patent pertains to: "A host computer system, containing processes for creating rich-media applications, [that] is accessed from a remote user computer system via an Internet connection. User account information and rich-media component specifications are uploaded via the established Internet connection for a specific user account. Rich-media applications are created, deleted, or modified in a user account via the established Internet connection. Rich-media components are added to, modified in, or deleted from scenes of a rich-media application based on information contained in user requests. After creation, the rich-media application is viewed or saved on the host computer system, or downloaded to the user computer system via the established Internet connection."
So not all Rich Internet Applications, because not all web applications are created via other web applications/tools like Balthaser's so-called Pro:Fx.
Nevertheless it appears that Neil Balthaser at least wants to try to use his patent to bleed RIA developers dry -- some of whom have been building RIAs for longer than he has. What a wonderful man! I wonder if he has an Amazon wishlist somewhere?..
A short-term solution might include voting with our dollars to make sure that we don't finance Balthaser's efforts by using his service (is anyone using his services currently? I'd love to hear from you -- and whether or not you'll continue using them. Please feel free to use the comments to let me know.) A longer-term goal might be to start gathering prior art. Perhaps we can start doing this on the OSFlash wiki.
I know that Branden was building RIAs prior to/during 2001 (when this patent was filed) as he was the main Flash architect behind the K12 Virtual School that we built at that time. This was a huge RIA (and my first.) The content for it alone took a whole day to offline generate at the time (remember Generator? It was built using Flash 5 and has since been updated and upgraded by my dear friend Charlie Cordova, myself and others and, although I haven't been involved with it in the longest time, I hear that it is still going strong (and they *still* haven't fixed that hairline border issue around the app -- grrr!.. I was bitching about that more than five years ago guys!)
Software patents in general are a farce and I hope with all my heart that the EU will not bow to the tremendous pressure being put on it by the US at the moment to implement them over here. Regardless of what happens, and regardless of my understanding that this patent does *not* apply to all RIAs, I still believe that we, as a community, need to stand firm against this claim.
Oh yes, and funnily enough, Neil Balthaser apparently used to work for Macromedia as a "VP of Flash Strategy".
Not cool at all.
Does anyone else think that we're witnessing Neil Balthaser pull a Ray Horn?
Comments
I know for a fact that while Dave Williamson and myself were part of Spooky and the Bandit we developed at least 2 of these 'site building site' style web applications. The most advanced one was called Casper (1998 - 2003).
However from a more commercially comparible perspective what about Moonfruit? http://www.moonfruit.com/ They launched their product around late 1998 / early 1999 (and Macromedia were an investor if my memory serves me correctly on all points)
So For Neil to try this he's going to have a hard time getting any further. I remember when he first posted about it - when it was still under the Balthaser.com site under the monicker of Balthaser|FX. This finally morphed into the 'profx' site and the product currently living there (obviously development has progressed but...).
L8rs
Mike
by FlashGen on 2006-02-23 12:50:54
by darron on 2006-02-23 13:14:25
I also remember that at flash forward 2000 there was an RIA by TinToon that created little flash cartoons using generator. Come to think of it, doesn’t Generator itself fall foul of this patent.
All of which beggars the question how much did Balthaser LIE in the prior/existing art section of the patent submission??
The gall of some people really does amaze me.
Dave aka (oldskoolflash, it used to be ironic, now its fact. :) )
by BitTube on 2006-02-23 14:05:01
by kit on 2006-02-23 14:05:50
http://casper.bittube.com
thx
by BitTube on 2006-02-23 14:13:57
Kit: Yes, that is basically the type of app the patent appears to pertain to.
Darron: LOL! Yeah, I'm taking it to mean "commit social suicide by repeatedly putting your foot in your mouth in a very public manner" :P
by Aral Balkan on 2006-02-23 15:02:36
by Flash Ant: Flash and Rich Internet Applications (RIA) Blog . :: Balthaser Patent Prior Art Discovery on 2006-02-23 07:08:54
As a community we need to do whatever we can to stand up and fight against efforts like this.
-erik
by erikbianchi on 2006-02-23 18:25:56
Maybe Micro$oft will sue google for copywrite infringement on FrontPage?!
Jolyon
by Jolyon on 2006-02-23 19:56:32
This was also ironically the same time that we were working really closely with Macromedia on the first and second releases of Generator and Flash 4 for an all Flash online banking site http://broadband.usabancshares.com/ (been down for a couple years now) - we launched it in mid 2000 prior to FlashForward NY that year, and at the following one in San Fran we won the ecommerce award for it in the filmfestival. I tend to agree with Keith and Aral, that some of this is really close to what Generator did, and in fact thats how the banking site worked. We created templates and uploaded them, and at run time based on what users selected and did it created a multimedia experience for the end user online. I definitely consider this prior art, I think a ton of Generator apps, and JGenerator apps would be considered prior art. We didnt just generate Flash either, we used the other capabilities of Generator output quicktime movies, and jpegs, etc. There is lots of stuff out there that I think could challenge this.
The last studio I worked at in Philly, I worked on the backend and administration tools for a similar Flash based content/web site creation tool called MyPinwheel - http://www.mypinwheel.com/ - which is similar but not exactly the same as what Neil offers and has apparently patented. Haven't touched it on over 5 months since I left so not sure what they are doing with it any longer, but I would think this is the kind of app that Neil is really trying to protect against, something that allows you to create things online through a process, but the statements in the CNET article lead you to believe he is gonna try and collect license fees from anything even close....sounds crazy to me.
I do think it is ironic the press release came out the same day google announced pages.google.com - good point Jolyon.
by Robert M. Hall on 2006-02-23 22:11:33
by Tim Wang on 2006-02-23 23:22:38
The claims of Patent 7,000,180 only covers web-site creation over the Internet ("users to create and maintain a rich-media application on said host website via the Internet")
Regardless if he was the inventor of the 1 type of this application (and that was novel and nonobvious), and has merit for that; his claims only cover that specific application.
If it is true that Neil Balthaser is saying that his patent covers every RIA, he is plain wrong.
by bioleal on 2006-02-24 01:31:19
by George on 2006-02-24 22:16:04
I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. However, on my layman's reading of it, I believe it would be covered if the patent is upheld. And CMS/online app customization appears to be covered. Of course, according to Balthaser's interpretation it also includes all RIAs and quite possibly the earth, seas and sky too :)
by Aral Balkan on 2006-02-24 22:37:18
by George on 2006-02-25 00:23:02
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/balthaser
Thanks!
Sean Gates
by Sean Gates on 2006-03-14 21:22:40
by Eric Henry on 2006-06-06 13:46:39
by Dave on 2006-08-17 09:06:45
by aral on 2006-08-17 11:04:50
by Magix to file Balthaser patent reexamination: can you help? at Aral Balkan on 2006-08-17 11:19:03
by diegocbapp on 2006-08-28 04:10:30
by Michael Saint Germaine on 2007-11-27 02:51:36
by Vivienne on 2008-05-14 03:18:13
by BALTHASER... YOU REMEMBER ME? on 2008-08-18 19:45:48
by FlashGen on 2009-08-09 05:43:09